AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality

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29.04.2022 22:27
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#31 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #29

Wobei, wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, die AWK gar nicht richtig nachjustierbar ist? Oder vielleicht sind die Schräubchen extra gut versteckt, sodass es auf jeden Fall der Kundendienst machen muss?


There is no screw to put the keys back to their position, either by raising or lowering them. The only little screw on the key is at the back of the key lever and tunes the distance of the magnet to increase or decrease the press point resistance (and the perceived weight).


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29.04.2022 22:33
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#32 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Canticus im Beitrag #30


Na dann...

Also, wenn ich das hier alles so lese, lobe ich mir wieder einmal meine "billigen", serienmäßigen VISCOUNT-Standard-Klaviaturen auf FATAR-Basis...



There are certainly some quality issues with the AWK that, given their retail price, should be seriously addressed and solved. However, and this must be clearly said, the touch of the keyboards is absolutely fantastic, totally unmatched by any keyboard on the market, including UHT, let alone by the standard Viscount keyboards! This is the reason why I have chosen them on my third instrument too (while I already identified some issues with my previous two ones).

I think that raising these issues publicly is a good way to give a feedback to the manufacturer and an invitation to take action.


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29.04.2022 22:48
#33 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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Vielleicht gibt es von Allen ja zur hauseigenen Klaviatur auch (gegen Aufpreis) eine Augen-Operation mit dazu, die den Parallaxenfehler korrigiert :D
(Danach kann man dann sogar um die Krümmung des Universums herum schauen!)


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29.04.2022 22:58 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 29.04.2022 23:01)
#34 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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@DigitalPipes

Ja, da gebe ich Dir selbstverständlich Recht!
Die AWK sind vom Spielgefühl sicher besser als die VISCOUNT-FATAR-Standardklaviaturen!

Mir ging es vor allem um den Beitrag #26 von @ahlborn wegen der sündhaft teuren ALLEN-Klaviaturen und das schon sektenhafte Wegreden durch die Forumsjünger des "anderen Forums", daß diese auf der abgebildeten Orgel tatsächlich "wellenförmig" montiert sind...

PLZ (erste zwei Ziffern): 69

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29.04.2022 23:04
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#35 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Viscount: AWK keyboards

Allen: UM (Unda Maris) keyboards


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29.04.2022 23:12 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 29.04.2022 23:13)
#36 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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@DigitalPipes

ALLEN:
🌊🌊🌊 🎹🎹🎹

PLZ (erste zwei Ziffern): 69

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29.04.2022 23:21 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 29.04.2022 23:21)
#37 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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Wenn man die Klaviatur auch an schiefe Finger anpassen kann, so ist das doch keinesfalls verkehrt. Nur, was macht man mit den Leuten vom Sägewerk?


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30.04.2022 08:53 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 30.04.2022 08:54)
avatar  ahlborn
#38 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
ah

Of course, my post did not want to unleash a "war of brands", but only to point out that unfortunately the quality goes in the direction of what the buyer is asking, regardless of the cost.
Certainly certain quality errors are less forgivable in objects classified as "premium" (another word that cannot be criticized on the other side of the world); after all this is the attitude of a fan: a football player may have committed the worst atrocities, but a fan will always love him unconditionally.

So it is useless (for them) to show the defects of the keyboards, the defects of the pedalboard (there are enough of them), or the fact that even in that factory a lot of MDF and plywood are used to build "premium" consoles (personally verified in many instruments), or many other criticizable elements in the electronic part: for them it is useless, Allen is the Olympus, the rest is satan.
They even went so far as to say that Physis did not convince them, because it sounded "electronic", and then boasted a MOS organ (1970s technology), which still sounded quite realistic.
Pure madness.

Of course, I am convinced that AWK has many advantages, but from what emerges here, also problems that need to be solved.
Anyone who has experience in piano maintenance will have no problem adjusting these keyboards, but for those who can't do it themselves, you need an impeccable service that can solve these problems.
Many piano shops, for example, also offer an additional service for adjusting the action after one year of purchase.
It makes sense, as wood and felt will tend to settle over time and use.

I'm just sorry that we live far away, otherwise I would have personally helped you to adjust these keyboards, which are in my opinion beautiful.

If I find some photos of the disassembly of the console, I could think of making a thread-tutorial to be published here, to adjust them independently.


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30.04.2022 08:54
avatar  Guilain
#39 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Gu

Wenn man die Postings hier liest, wird man total unsicher, welche Tastatur man für eine neue Orgel bestellen soll. - Wolfgang Syré hat doch eine eigene Klaviatur entwickelt; um die ist es still geworden. Kisselbach antwortete vor Jahren auf meine Anfrage, dass diese Klaviatur für einen Einbau in übliche Instrumente zu lang sei.


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30.04.2022 09:55
#40 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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Ja, am Ende wird es meistens ein Kompromiss sein. Wenn es verschiedene Randbedingungen gibt, ist das immer schwierig; und da hilft es auch nicht viel, wenn das nötige Geld vorhanden ist. Im Gegenteil, dadurch wird die Auswahl ja noch größer -- bis zu dem Punkt, wo man sich vom Orgelbauer eine Maßanfertigung bauen lässt..


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30.04.2022 10:41
#41 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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Ich spiele seit 2017 auf einer von Kisselbach gelieferten Gloria Optimus mit AWK-Klaviatur (Tastaturgewichtung individuell eingestellt auf 130g, Bambus/Ahorn), ohne dass sich irgendwelche Mängel gezeigt hätten.


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30.04.2022 10:58 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 30.04.2022 11:03)
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#42 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #38
Of course, my post did not want to unleash a "war of brands", but only to point out that unfortunately the quality goes in the direction of what the buyer is asking, regardless of the cost.
Certainly certain quality errors are less forgivable in objects classified as "premium" (another word that cannot be criticized on the other side of the world); after all this is the attitude of a fan: a football player may have committed the worst atrocities, but a fan will always love him unconditionally.


Yes, and it makes no sense to discuss with these people. I had a discussion some months ago about the composite Hauptwerk sample sets of organs that have never been sampled, the Cavaillé Coll St. Suplice and St. Ouen. I call them Frankenstein sample sets because that's simply what they are. But there are people who swear that they sound exactly like the original instrument. They do indeed, if the basic rules of acoustics and sound propagation are ignored, and if one wears thick slices of smoked salmon over their ears.

Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #38
Of course, I am convinced that AWK has many advantages, but from what emerges here, also problems that need to be solved.
Anyone who has experience in piano maintenance will have no problem adjusting these keyboards, but for those who can't do it themselves, you need an impeccable service that can solve these problems.
Many piano shops, for example, also offer an additional service for adjusting the action after one year of purchase.
It makes sense, as wood and felt will tend to settle over time and use.



Yes the problems must be noted, addressed and solved by the manufacturer. The link with the customer is the only way for a producer to improve their product. When you offer a premium option at a premium price, you must deliver a premium product.

To give some commercial context, KAWAI produces a midi controller with a pretty sophisticated wooden keyboards and action, the VPC1. It costs like one AWK keyboard, but there is so much more in it, and the pivot point is in the correct place for chromatic and diatonic keys (unlike AWK). They do not require any tuning after one year. So, Viscount could do better too.

img_vpc1_slide_pc_4_982.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #38


I'm just sorry that we live far away, otherwise I would have personally helped you to adjust these keyboards, which are in my opinion beautiful.

.


You are way too kind and we are lucky to have you here in this forum! I think Viscount should hire you as quality and improvement consultant! Seriously.

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #40
Ja, am Ende wird es meistens ein Kompromiss sein. Wenn es verschiedene Randbedingungen gibt, ist das immer schwierig; und da hilft es auch nicht viel, wenn das nötige Geld vorhanden ist. Im Gegenteil, dadurch wird die Auswahl ja noch größer -- bis zu dem Punkt, wo man sich vom Orgelbauer eine Maßanfertigung bauen lässt..


Well, they are not trying to invent the wheel . Good keyboards have been manufactured for decades, especially for electric-traction pipe organs where they operate in standalone mode and are not affected by the tracker action (although, also in the latter case, only suspended tracker action influences the alignment of the keyboards). I see instruments built by Mascioni in the 50s/60s with keyboards still in pristine conditions. It is not possible that a product that has been on the market for a decade, or so, did not undergo some technical improvements for the issues that appeared in the meantime. I am more afraid that single customers would not complain about these issues and maybe the producer is not really aware of it, or maybe the number of claims is too low. It's good therefore that we have the internet and this forum where problems can be brought to the public and hopefully trigger some reactions at the right place.


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30.04.2022 18:40
#43 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Ni

Hallo zusammen,

hat jemand in akzeptabler Nähe zu Krefeld mal AWK-Klaviaturen zum ausprobieren?

Selber bin ich totaler UHT-Fan, die Druckpunkte finde ich super und die scheinen mir auch ziemlich unkaputtbar.

Habe mir vor 6-7 Jahren eine Gloria Excellent mit den UHT-Tastaturen gekauft, die war damals schon deutlich über 10 Jahre alt und auch viel gespielt. Da läuft alles tadellos.

AWK würde mich aber auch mal interessieren.

Viele Grüße

Michael


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30.04.2022 19:34
#44 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
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Intonationsmeister

Köln ist ja nicht so weit weg. Einfach mal bei Kisselbach vorbeischauen, da gibt's bestimmt eine AWK vorführbereit.

LG
Frank

Gloria Concerto 355cc

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30.04.2022 20:04
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#45 RE: AWK Keyboards and standardised product quality
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Guilain im Beitrag #39
Wenn man die Postings hier liest, wird man total unsicher, welche Tastatur man für eine neue Orgel bestellen soll. - Wolfgang Syré hat doch eine eigene Klaviatur entwickelt; um die ist es still geworden. Kisselbach antwortete vor Jahren auf meine Anfrage, dass diese Klaviatur für einen Einbau in übliche Instrumente zu lang sei.


I tried to find more info about these keyboards but could find none. Is there a website with some data?


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